ECG Interview with Stu Hoegner – Internet Gaming 0
I’ve wanted to do more interviews at ECG and I was finally able to sit down (on my couch) with Stu Hoegner (probably in an office) to learn a little about online gambling, Canadian gambling and more. This will be broken into a few parts as there was just too much information for one sitting.
I “met” Stu on twitter. We both seem to have similar interests and I’ve learned a lot about the man just by reading his tweets and asking questions. In fact, he’s the person that tipped me off to the rumor that the Rio may be sold. Here’s your introduction to Stu.
Today we touch on Internet gambling and how Canadian and American Law effect our play online.
Q: We met on twitter because of mutual interests. How does twitter help with your work?
A: The strings and conversations that you & I have had on Twitter are exactly the reason that I’m glad I hopped on the medium. Twitter allows me to blast out updates to clients, colleagues, and those who share the same interests – it’s a fantastic broadcast mechanism. It has also introduced me to a lot of valuable contacts and resources in the industry that I may not have met as quickly without Twitter. I find Twitter is faster and easier to filter than the online gaming press. With the poker blogs I read, most of the time I’m tipped off to emerging stories on Twitter first. Another example: Twitter was also the way that I met up with the great people @CEMMagazine – our relationship has turned into some great podcasts and an article on the Canadian gaming industry in CEM Magazine. So, for me, Twitter has been both an intake mechanism and a great medium for sending out information to interested people.
Q: You tweet a lot about online gambling issues. What do you see as the most important issue with online gaming?
A: That depends on the jurisdiction and the marketplace. For example, in the US, HR 2267 (the Internet Gambling Regulation, Consumer Protection, and Enforcement Act) is still a bill worth watching. There is precious time left for this bill to pass in the current Congressional session, but things can change quickly in Internet gambling – look at the UIGEA passage in 2006, which many thought wasn’t going to happen in August of that year. The states in the US are also the source of a lot of activity in online gaming and should not be ignored. As only one example, the moves being made in California should be of tremendous interest to those in the industry. In Canada, the big story this year is about the provinces and the moves of provincial operators into the Internet gaming space, including the most populous province, Ontario, which has announced its intention to have a suite of Internet gaming offerings ready for 2012. In other countries, there’s a fascinating interplay between those still seeking to crack down on online gaming and enforce prohibitions (e.g., China) and those making affirmative steps towards legalization and regulation of the sector (e.g., France).
Q: Is there a difference in online poker vs. online sports betting vs. online casino gambling?
A: Again, that depends on the jurisdiction. In the US, online poker may very well be legally different from many casino games if and to the extent that poker is predominantly a game of skill. The predominance test is recognized as the relevant test in a number of US jurisdictions. (There have been decisions on poker in the US that make different conclusions about poker, so there is a lack of uniformity on the answer.) In Canada, the Criminal Code generally sets out restrictions on games of chance or of mixed chance and skill. Games of mixed chance and skill definitely include most versions of poker, if not all of them, so the predominance test is not relevant under Canadian criminal law. In that one sense (i.e., whether these are games of mixed chance and skill, pure chance, or pure skill), there may be little difference between many casino games, poker, and sports betting in Canada, but there are major differences in how these different offerings are regulated and managed by provincial, federal, and aboriginal authorities in Canada.
Q: Is online gambling (poker, sports, etc.) legal in Canada?
A:That’s still a very engaging question up here. The Criminal Code makes it an offence to, for example, sell a pool, engage in book-making, keep a common gaming house, or employ a device or machine for gambling or betting without a provincial licence. Certain fairs, exhibitions, and religious and charitable groups can obtain provincial licences to conduct certain gaming and betting activities. In the case of conducting and managing these activities online, however, the Code reserves that right to the provinces, and the provinces are now starting to pile into the i-gaming sector. Certain First Nations groups in Canada also assert a compelling and constitutionally-protected right to manage and regulate gaming within and from their territory, including Internet gaming; the best and most successful of these groups is the Mohawks of Kahnawake. Some of the biggest Internet gaming concerns in the world are hosted in Kahnawake and regulated by the Kahnawake Gaming Commission.
It is unlikely that it’s illegal to place an online wager or bet in Canada, although the law is not entirely clear on the point.
Q: Do you see this changing?
A: I don’t think that legislative changes to the Criminal Code with respect to gaming are front-and-centre on the current Conservative government’s agenda at the moment.
Q: How about America?
A: Like many other observers, I tend to think that the question of normalization and regulation of Internet gaming in the United States is a matter of when and not if, but I’m not clear on whether leadership on this issue will come from Congress or come from one or more of the states.
Follow Stu (aka gaming counsel) on twitter.
